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Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #1 
As alot of you know ,ive built quite afew big bore predator engines . Most of the time i rebuilt my older 03 and 04 engine because i blew 3rd gear alot. Although I blew many 03 and 04 transmissions , as of right now i loved those transmissions the best because of their gear ratios. BUt thats it.

for my last predator 600 engine  i used a 05 Troy Lee transmission, mostly because of the close ratio and because it was a whole new bottom and wasn't known for blowing 3rd gear like the 03 and 04's.

As of right now i believe that the choice of the Tory transmission is not for me. Its not to my liking at all. Don't get me wrong 1st-to-4th is totally awesome but the gap between 4th and 5th is just bullshit. For the way i ride that gap could get me into some trouble riding (high speeds woops) I truely love the 600 engine i built but as of right now I think I want to find a standard transmission and install it in my 600 bottom end.
I would love to hear what some of you guys think. I feel this info is kinda important to be told for guys who are looking to build a predator big bore. I feel that if you are looking to build a big bore for more top end riding to stay away form the Troy lee trans. 4th has to be reved high to carry 5th. My problem is i do alot of high speed riding and on my 04 pred I ride 5th alot and down shift to 4th when under crazy loads, with the o5 tld trans I find myself fighting between those two gears way to much..mostly because it is harder to carry 5th though harder loads.(hard to stay on the power curve) If you are looking to build just a short track ripper then the troy lee is your ticket, also it would be good for short drag racing.
Maybe some of the issue will be resolved with more tuning and cdi programming, but from other troy lees that ive ridden I fear Ill be taking my 600 apart for a standard transmission.

Lastly if anyone has any info on the ratios could you please post them.
I'd like to know the ratios for
outlaw 500 engine
05 to 07 troy lee 500
05 to 07 standard 500
03 and 04 standard 500.
SvSlow

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Reply with quote  #2 
04 Normal
(1)2.6
(2)1.7
(3)1.3
(4)1.1
(5)0.9

06 Troy Lee      (1)2.6 Gear Ratio

(2)1.9 Gear Ratio
(3)1.5 Gear Ratio
(4)1.2 Gear Ratio
(5)0.9 Gear Ratio 

06 Normal
 (1)2.4 Gear Ratio(2)1.6 
(3)1.3
(4)1.1
(5)0.9

No listings on the outlaw

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Marlborough, Ma
06 Troy Lee Predator

Full Yoshi Rs-3,04 450R Carb(50P,3rd clip,175MJ), CFM aribox w/ K&n's and no lid, Rzr 2's, Hid's, PRM Rad Shrouds,Trail tech Vapor, Tusk Big Chub, Jardine Nerfs.
SvSlow

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Reply with quote  #3 
Got the stats from atvrideronline.com
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Marlborough, Ma
06 Troy Lee Predator

Full Yoshi Rs-3,04 450R Carb(50P,3rd clip,175MJ), CFM aribox w/ K&n's and no lid, Rzr 2's, Hid's, PRM Rad Shrouds,Trail tech Vapor, Tusk Big Chub, Jardine Nerfs.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #4 
thank you.
LE Nick

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Reply with quote  #5 
Yup, the close ratio sucks for open riding.  I've had both and would take the wide ratio any day.  The close may be decent for tight woods riding but that's about it.
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Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #6 
ok guys this is a old post but I still haven't ditched the troy lee trans because im having a hard time finding a standard 05-07 transmission. I could use some help guys !!!! also since I spent so much money on the troy lee cases (powder/chrome/crank) I don't want to start over again. However im not sure if my idea of dropping a standard trans in a troy lee cases will fit / work. does anyone know if there is and difference in the cases castings between troy lee and standard ? is there any cross over parts , another words could I just buy every gear I need and slap them on the troylee trans shafts and still use the troylee shift drum and forks.  I wouldn't be comfortable doing that but just wondering if the only difference is the gear teeth count/ratios. ..
I really want to get the rath frame pred on the trail again but I wont ride it with that bullshit troylee trans, its going to kill me.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #7 
im pretty sure I can drop a standard wide ratio trans in a troylee but I have never done it nor have I ever heard of anyone doing it. anyone know ?
Dunph

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Reply with quote  #8 
i do miss the top end of my wide ratio trans in my pred. even with a 15t front im only seeing 75 on the ice. the pred was def faster
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pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hey Brick, did you ever get your head gasket problems figured out on the 600? Sounds like you got it going again. I look to you, to answer my hard core questions,you seem to be one of the only members who still works/races Predators.Is it still possible to get a 600 kit? Or what?
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #10 
My 600 ended up cracking the cylinder . I just dropped in a standard cylinder, For Now. The cylinder I used was a oem bored out and recoated . I guess I found out the limit of the stock cylinder thinkness. It was kind of thin. I do believe that if it had a steel cylinder it would have lasted . The aluminum couldn't take the heat, I guess. Adding a steel cylinder wont help with the heat either. I just couldn't get the 600 to run cool enough. It might have lasted if I just used it for short drags but I ride hard and for longer durations .

My plan right now is to remove the troy lee transmission , drop in a standard trans and buy a 560 kit. It runs good as a 500 but I really hate the troy lee trans its going to kill me in High Speed Whoops . The gap between 4th and 5th throws the whole power curve off , it really lags down the engine no matter how high you rev it and power shift. screw that, I need the standard trans.

Now can anyone tell me what the model number/code is for a 2005 standard trans is , is it a AA AB AC. which one is which? I have had a hard time finding a standard reverse trans . Everyone on ebay does not even know which trans they have . Anyone got one or a cheap bottom end ? if not I need to know the model code letters are for a standard trans.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #11 
sorry to answer your question . I don't know if you can get a 600 kit. Check with hotseat/speedwerx. I would guess you could Have a cylinder bored but I wouldn't do it Again. I also suppose you could get a steel cylinder sleeve made and pushed in. I still may do that but when I take my troylee apart im just going to do a 560 kit and maybe do the 600 steel sleeved cylinder Idea, on the side.
I don't think at this point I ever had a head gasket issue . I think the crack was there from the beginning , I just couldn't see it until it grew . It cracked between the water port and the ring lines on the inside was hard to see other then the discolor from the antifreeze .But that was after it grew and got worse. I also was using the evans waterless coolant. its like a oil so it doesn't score the cylinder like normal antifreeze would.
ScramblerXLE

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Reply with quote  #12 
Brick,

In '05, the AA and AC had a standard trans.  In '06, it was the AA ONLY.  the AC that year had the TLD trans.  Either trans can go in either case BUT there is one bearing that will need replaced as one of the shafts is a slightly different diameter on one end between the 2 transmissions.  If I remember right, it was the main shaft, flywheel side bearing that was different, but you'll want to confirm.  Other than that, either trans can go either place.  Remember that the shift drum and some of the shift forks were different also...

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-Walt GNCC # 728 (GNCC - Vet A)
2015 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 450XC
2009 KTM 250XC
2005 Predator 558 (project)
2003 Cannondale 440 (project)
2006 KLX 250S
2002 Scrambler X 500
Sold, crashed, or otherwise gone: 2008 YFZ450, 2005 Predator 500 LE, 2007 Outlaw 525, 2003 Cannondale 440
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #13 
What are your thoughts on the 560 kit these days with HPD gone? I had no luck getting a hold of Rick Ritter. No body on here seems to be doing anything performance wise with the 500's anymore. It's all old info. I'm an Admin on a Facebook page for Predators/Outlaws, and there is a lot of interest in the BB558, I just recommend they get the Wiseco kit with the sleeve and have it done by somebody. I would like to be able to recommend someone that could do it all. I'am actually thinking of offering BB558 kits like Darrell O. offered at HPD, through my small business Pimp'D Dzignz. I specialize in parts only for Predator/Outlaw 500's. But I would have to be confident in the work. I have several cyl. right now that I could send in to be sleeved, I would like to keep a couple of the kits in stock, and do like HPD did with their "PowerMaxx" kits,just charge for the core, or have them send theirs in as a core. Any thoughts on doing this? Any help/advice would be appreciated.
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #14 
Funny I don't even know where to go for the 558 kit or 560 . I always see the 560 JE kit on ebay and that is what I would recommend . But as far as someone who does the cylinder work ,I really don't have anyone anymore. I know IDM in New jersey will do sleeves and boring , but I haven't used them in several years. I do believe LA sleeve will still do 558 cylinders. See with the 560 its not necessary to resleeve. The stock aluminum cylinder can be bored to the 105mm and re nikasil coated, with out any worry of cracking. so its just a matter of finding someone who would do that work. I'm sure powerseal usa , millennium technologies, and LA Sleeve could do what we would be looking for. Other then that its the wiseco sleeve and find someone to press it in.
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #15 
Do you know which way the HPD "PowerMaxx" cylinders were done? Darrell O. told me that he didn't bother using anything other than Wiseco on his builds. I know my HPD 558 kit had a Wiseco piston,rings,etc.. but I dont know anything about how the "PowerMaxx" cylinders were done.
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #16 
no I do not know , I never used the HPD powermax cylinder so I never asked or researched . One thing I do know is that in the last two years I and many of my fellow riders here in NJ have found quality control issues with wiseco products. Mostly with their pistons. Some pistons not truly round and I had a issue with a wiseco piston for my 525 outlaw. The outlaw piston wasn't relief cut deep enough in the wrist pin area/ rod clearance  . My rod was rubbing the piston and the pin and rod bore were still in spec.the piston was also oval . I like the JE pistons better .
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #17 
Good to know,thanx!


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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
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