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Jack Burton

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Reply with quote  #1 
Not new to riding but new to quads. Grew up racing mx but never rode quads. So, now that I'm in my 30's I figured I'd give it a try. I picked up a 2008 Outlaw 525 S that is practically new. Looks like it wasn't ridden very much. The mods so far are a full Yoshimura RS-5 system, Rath Racing intake with K&N, and 6sigma jet kit. I have some questions on current issues and some questions on future mods (don't want to waste time and money on things that I may not need or that may be absolute crap). Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give.

Carb Setup:

Main Jet: 165
Stock Needle: 2 shims
Pilot Jet: 42 (if I remember correctly)
Leak Block: not installed
Fuel: Sunoco 110
Air Screw: 2 turns

I have the following jet kit parts left:
Main: 170
Main: 160
Shims: I have a few
Leak Block: I have 1.

Right now when I start the bike (cold start) it's a little cold blooded. Once it's warm and I'm out riding I notice I have some deceleration pop (mainly in the lower gears) and when I try to cruise slowly in 3rd (say if I'm trying to cruise slowly and quietly by a farm) the big seems to want to bog down a bit. It really doesn't seem to want to do that. Once I drop it gear and keep the revs up it does much better. My buddy with an 07 Outlaw 500 IRS doesn't have this problem. His bike has exhaust, intake, and jetted as well. I know his doesn't have the KTM engine. If you guys have any input on where to start on correcting the jetting that would be awesome.


Now on to the fun. I want to get into some additional mods. Many of these can be found on ebay, but I'll link most of them to new websites just for ease of reference. Let me know if any of you have experience with any of these types of modifications and what you thought of them.

Suspension: I'm not a big fan of the factory suspension. Most of my riding is high speed power lines (choppy with a lot of chatter), railroad beds (with big whoops), and trails. I'd like to upgrade to some suspension with some greater range of adjustment and tuned for me.

Fox Podium X Front Shocks: looks like I can pick up a pair of these cheap on ebay (complete with the additional reservoir on the sides).

I'm also seeing good package deals for Elka Stage 3 front and rear (new).

Cams: Not sure if I'm wanting to go with a high comp piston or a big bore kit (although it's tempting). Have any of you had good luck with any of the cams available on the stock piston, valves and springs?

Widening: What have you been doing to widen the quad. For the normal trail rider like me would something like this work for the front and rear?

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1622/32054/Tusk-Rear-Aluminum-Wheel-Spacer?v=6834

Steering Stabilizer: since a lot of the riding I'm doing is moving along at a decent clip I figured a steering stabilizer would be nice (I see the need for it every time I'm out). I was checking out the one made by Precision Racing. Looks like a high quality product. Any feedback?

Tires: From what I've been reading the Maxxis Razr-II tires are looking great and I've seen nothing but positive reviews on them. I'm leaning towards getting them unless I hear anything negative.

Beadlocks: are they worth it for the recreational rider (other than looking bad ass)?

Steering Stem with Flex Bars: I've never had anything like this...ever. Never had anything anti-vibe, let alone handlebars that move/flex. So, I have no clue what to think about this. I was originally just going to pick up a fat set of pro taper bars, but I'd like some feedback from you guys. If it's not a huge difference I'll stick with the pro tapers, but if the stem and the flex bars make a noticeable difference in comfort and preventing rider fatigue I'm very interested. Would I be interested in the stem, the bars, or the combo?


Sorry for the long post but I've been compiling all this for a while after doing some research off an on and I know this forum seems to have a great reputation for knowledgeable members (from what I've read elsewhere) so I was hoping you guys could help steer me in the right direction with some of my plans listed above.

Once again, thanks for any help you can give.



LE Nick

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Reply with quote  #2 
What leak jet are you running now?  Does the needle not have clip positions?

For the price, it's hard to beat the Elka shock deal.  Call and ask if their specs for a 2008 to 2009 are different.  If they are, the 2009 has a longer travel rear shock.  Get that one.  Your only risk would be running the rear caliper into the exhaust.

8/06 is a good all around cam for the 525.  The 8/33 adds a mid to top end rush but takes away a bit of rideability down low.

Precision is the best out there.  If you want to pony up the money for it, go ahead.  Any stabilizer is better than none though.

I would stay away from Razr 2 rears.  I run Razr 2 fronts and standard Razr rears.  Look at the GNCC guys...that's all they run for a good reason.

Beadlocks:  no.  They add weight, make it harder to clean, and slow your machine down.  But yes, they do look great and if you get flats a lot, they're worth having.

Just get Flexx's.  Trust me, they're worth it.

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hello and welcome to the site. As always nick is right on the money with his info.
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FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
Fuj

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Reply with quote  #4 
Bag that 110 Race gas. Way too much octane for that
motor at this point. It's probably one of the biggest
reasons it's cold blooded. Throw some 91 pump in it.
And if it's popping, check for any exhaust leaks, and
you may have to boost the jetting a bit if your in some
cold dry air this time of year.

Fuj

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Jack Burton

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Nick
What leak jet are you running now?  Does the needle not have clip positions?

For the price, it's hard to beat the Elka shock deal.  Call and ask if their specs for a 2008 to 2009 are different.  If they are, the 2009 has a longer travel rear shock.  Get that one.  Your only risk would be running the rear caliper into the exhaust.

8/06 is a good all around cam for the 525.  The 8/33 adds a mid to top end rush but takes away a bit of rideability down low.

Precision is the best out there.  If you want to pony up the money for it, go ahead.  Any stabilizer is better than none though.

I would stay away from Razr 2 rears.  I run Razr 2 fronts and standard Razr rears.  Look at the GNCC guys...that's all they run for a good reason.

Beadlocks:  no.  They add weight, make it harder to clean, and slow your machine down.  But yes, they do look great and if you get flats a lot, they're worth having.

Just get Flexx's.  Trust me, they're worth it.


The leak jet now is whatever came in it from the factory. The 6sigma kit comes with a leak block M4. I need to install that.

The 6sigma kit also uses the factory needle and uses shims to adjust the needle. The instructions told me to install the 2 shims below the e-clip. Note that 1 shim is 1/2 step of a clip position.

I'll call on those Elka's. If their is a risk of hitting my exhaust is their anything I can do to correct that issue?

Sounds like that 8/06 is a good cam.

From what I've read the precision is the best out there. You're right, it's definitely very pricey. Are their cheaper alternatives that you would recommend or would you recommend sticking with the precision?

Why do you stay away from the Razr 2's in the rears? Too much grip?

Thanks for the advice on the beadlocks, that will save me a pretty big chunk of change!

Also, thanks for the advice on the Flex bars. I've been hesitant to try them due to the price, but I'm going to buy them now. Can't wait to try them.



Jack Burton

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuj
Bag that 110 Race gas. Way too much octane for that
motor at this point. It's probably one of the biggest
reasons it's cold blooded. Throw some 91 pump in it.
And if it's popping, check for any exhaust leaks, and
you may have to boost the jetting a bit if your in some
cold dry air this time of year.

Fuj


I have access to Sunoco 91 ethanol free. Will that octane be enough? If not, I can always toss in a little 110 every fill up to up it  bit if need be (it's close by to me so it's easy to get out of the pump).

Is it too much for my motor at this point since I'm running at the stock compression ratio?

In regards to exhaust leaks, could you make some good recommendations to check for leaks. Right now it's not making any of the typical exhaust ticking type noise associate with a leak and everything is feeling tight...does anybody have a decent method to test for leaks?
LE Nick

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Reply with quote  #7 
The leak jet is plugged from the factory on the Outlaws.

The 09 rear brake setup solves the issue but you will lose a bit of ground clearance with the larger rotor.

As for cheaper stabilizer options, a CCP is a great option if they make a mount for the Outlaw or a stick type is better than nothing.

Actually, too little grip and too much weight with the Razr 2.  They are fine in sloppy or wet conditions where they can bite, but put them on hard pack and you'll regret buying them.

91 will be fine.

Exhaust leak is most likely at the header flange.  You should see a black residue (maybe not with the race fuel) in that area.

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2007 LTR450 2012 Sportsman 850HO EPS
Jack Burton

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Reply with quote  #8 
I'll check the leak jet setup again when I have it apart again. Have most of you guys installed a leak block?

In regards to tires, I live in FL so I pretty much ride in sand most of the time. The sand does range in cosistancy from sugary at times, to soft, to medium. Occasionally I'll hit some intermediate terrain. I had just remembered I hadn't described the terrain I ride on in regards to tires.
Jack Burton

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Reply with quote  #9 
Also, any input one the use of tusk wheel spacers?
Fuj

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Reply with quote  #10 
Flex bars are great if your up and out of the seat
a lot, and getting up to take some jumps and hard
hits. If you tend to stay in the seat all the time, Flex
Bars are useless and your better off with the best
adjustable stabilizer you can find. I noticed you said
you did some MX racing, so I bet you'll have a habit
of being up off the seat, and the bars work best at
that point, since they only cushin' downward.

That 91 pump with no alky would be the ticket. Since
your down around sea level, throwing a half gallon of
110 into a 5 gallon batch of 91 will more then keep your
motor happy.

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Rkangel

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Reply with quote  #11 
I'm not a big fan of wheel spacers, personally.  They change the steering geometry, increase bump steer, and can increase stress on the lugs.  I have seen a couple broken lugs caused by wheel spacers.  Extended A-arms and wider axle would be the best way to increase width while maintaining geometry and durability. 
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2009 Polaris Outlaw IRS
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Reply with quote  #12 
Rkangel is correct on the spacers. There are better alternatives. With that being said wheel spacers do work and can give a lot of stability for a lot less investment and can be taken off pretty easily.
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FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
Jack Burton

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Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #13 
Any good recommendations on an a-arm kit to go with Elka shocks.
atv4play

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Reply with quote  #14 
Rath arms are awesome. I had a set of Linestar arms that weren't adjustable, then I upgraded to the Raths- waay better in my opinion and experience. They widen and lower the machine considerably.
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2009 525 MXR-XCR
E-Sticky Graphics
Flexx Bars, Rath Anti Vibe Stem, ODI grips, Honda Throttle with Kiwi Spring Mod, KTM Intake Tube with K&N Filter in Modded Sub-Frame, FMF Factory 4.1 Slip on, Ceramic coated header, Quadtech Hood, Lowered subframe supports, Rath MX A Arms, Rath MX Hubs, Fox Float Evol Front Shocks/Revalved and Resprung Podium X Rear, Pure Polaris Bumper, Rath Monster peg 44 Series Nerf bars, PB Bob Oil Cooler Adapter, Gold speed Fronts and Gold Speed MXR2's on Hiper Tech 3's for the track Razr 2's on Hiper Tech 3's Dual Beadlocks and Razr's on Hiper CF1s for the woods.
ScramblerXLE

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Reply with quote  #15 
Just to offer a couple of counter points / comments:

I've never ridden an Elka shock out of the box that actually worked.  I had Factory Series fronts and a Stage 3 rear with their XC linkage for my YFZ and they were literally unrideable.  The consensus seems to be that if you buy their shocks you need to send them out for a revalve before you even bother to bolt them onto your bike.  It seems like the quality of the components is pretty solid, so once you get them setup they will work for you and last, but I'd be surprised if they were even on par with the stock piggy back Podium X's out of the box.  Later in life, after a few revalves and some spring changes, Rocket Ron was able to get the Elkas to work for me though.  Another good option may be to get a set of piggy back Fox fronts, and send all 3 of them out for a revalve.  The only down-side there is that the fronts aren't rebound adjustable...

Another thing I had on the YFZ that I didn't like at all was the CCP dampener.  At first I loved it because it seemed to be a quality component for the money.  Trouble is, there just wasn't enough dampening in the thing for me.  Maybe that's not an issue you will have, but I was just a C class GNCC racer at the time, and I turned the knob all the way in, then back out 1/4 turn and rode on it, and it wasn't even close.  At the time, I figured that a thicker oil would fix the problem, but I couldn't get the guy from CCP to reply to any of my messages or voicemails, so eventually I sold the thing.  I'm never one for used stuff, but I'd certainly be looking for a used Precision for $250 before I gave CCP $180 for a new unit.  In addition, I never had a single complaint with the Streamline Pogo-stick type stabilizer that was on my Cannondale, and it seemed to offer WAY more dampening than the CCP did, so I've actually ordered another one of those recently to go on my local KTM.  Assuming it works as well for the KTM as it did for the Cannondale, the Predator will be getting one also.  I run Precision dampeners on my race bikes and I know the Streamline isn't on that level, but for my money it at least did the job.

The only other thing I would offer is that if you find that you're up in the rev range quite a bit, which I imagine you would on wooped out powerline sections and fire-roads, an 8/33 cam may actually be a bit more attractive for you than an 8/06.  In my opinion, the 8/06 is what should have came in a 525 from the factory instead of the same 5521 that they run in the 450.  That's why the 525 goes so flat on top.  The 8/06 will help the bike rev out better and smooth out the bottom end a touch as well, but it still won't over-rev like an 8/33 does.  If you don't want to give up any bottom end, an 8/33 and a 12.5:1 piston works great on pump gas and you'll still have the bottom end you're used to, but a significant increase in over-rev power.  I've been running that setup for years in my national bikes with great results.

EDIT: No disagreements with the guys on any other points.  Yes to Flexx bars, no to beadlocks for recreational use, etc...

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-Walt GNCC # 728 (GNCC - Vet A)
2015 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 450XC
2009 KTM 250XC
2005 Predator 558 (project)
2003 Cannondale 440 (project)
2006 KLX 250S
2002 Scrambler X 500
Sold, crashed, or otherwise gone: 2008 YFZ450, 2005 Predator 500 LE, 2007 Outlaw 525, 2003 Cannondale 440
Jack Burton

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Reply with quote  #16 
Glad I didn't order anything just yet.

Been poking around a bit and I've been eyeballing an ltr 450 and when I was in the dealership the scrambler xp 1000 eps looked bad ass too. Not sure if I would like them as much as an outlaw though. Decisions...

Still eyeballing parts deals for the 525.
Jack Burton

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Reply with quote  #17 
Do the yfz 450x shocks bolt right up to the outlaw? I was thinking of ordering those and keeping my factory rear shock. Any feedback?
Rkangel

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Reply with quote  #18 
Don't know about YFZ shocks, but you might want to check out Elka.  They have some clearance sales going on.
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2009 Polaris Outlaw IRS
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