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NBass

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Reply with quote  #1 
have an 04 predator. once its warmed up it runs like a champ. But when starting it will fire up first shot every time but you have to either stay on the gas or adjust the idle up a lot to get it to stay running. And if you let off and let it die, it wont start back up no matter how much you crank. come back to it ten min later and fires right back up. I cleaned the carb and jet needle is in second position down as i had it on the 3rd and it was running really rich. Any help would be great.
ORION

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Reply with quote  #2 
Are you using the choke? 
TxOutlawRider

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Reply with quote  #3 
Did you turn the idle mixture screw back out the right number of turns? 
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NBass

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Reply with quote  #4 
i have tried it both with the choke and without it, i have never had to use the choke in the past tho except for winter days occasionally. and i was not aware their was a stock setting for the idle mixture screw. it says it should idle at about 1600 and i tuned it by ear. but it wont stay running unless the screw is damn near all the way in. and when the bike does warm up after about ten minutes the idle is so high it sounds like its gonna blow so i have to constantly adjust it.
NBass

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Reply with quote  #5 
Also this really only occurs on the first start. id say if i let it sit for about 5 or 6 hrs it will go back to acting that way
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #6 
Have you checked your throttle free-play? Also it sounds like your starter jet may be dirty.Those Mikuni's have to be super extra sqeeky clean. Have you eliminated your fuel pump yet?  
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
NBass

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Reply with quote  #7 
i have mesed with the free play quite a few times and their is about 1/8'' free play in it now. where is the starter jet located sorry i dont have the manual handy where im at. and no i am fairly new to predators and knew nothing about eliminating the pump, could you elaborate on that? how does it help? sorry late to reply i checked it every hour when i first posted this and didnt hear back from anyone so i didnt check. i appreciated all your help
ORION

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Reply with quote  #8 
Have you checked the compression/leakdown test?
NBass

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Reply with quote  #9 
No i have not had a chance to do that yet and didn't cross my mind then because once it warmed up it ran great. But after this weekend i think a leak down test is necessary. it is smoking like crazy, blue. and lacking a little power.
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #10 
The fuel pump is shit, most of us just eliminate it completely. I offer a complete kit to eliminate the pump, it includes all new top quality parts: (1) 1/4" glass/cleanable fuel filter, (1) rear facing 1/4" fuel petcock, (1) 3/8" vacuum cap, (4) 3/8" spring hose clamps, (1) 24"x1/4" clear reinforced fuel line, instructions for $40.00 + shipping. This is the best way, I use clear components so you can see what is going on with your fuel delivery. Also, the stock fuel lines are not rated for the ethanol fuel that is sold everywhere now, except Conoco Supreme. The insides of the fuel lines will break down, due to the ethanol, resulting in small black particles of rubber in your carb/fuel system.Let me know if ur interested.Sounds like you need some new valve seals and rings! 
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #11 
p.s. there is some good carb diagrams in the how-to section.
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
NBass

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Reply with quote  #12 
I would be interested in the kit if it is needed, not to under mind your product as it is very reasonable, but could i just disconnect the hoses from the fuel pump and mate them together? does this give the same effect, so i can see if it makes a difference.  Also do you think its valve seals or do you think just doing rings and valve shims would solve my oil issue? i was told when i bought it that they probably need to be shimmed. i can hear the valves when it is idling, guy said he has always been able to hear them, is this normal? sorry for all the questions and appreciate all the help once again.
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #13 
You can certainly do that to check if the pump is working, the thing is there is no way to know for sure, because the lines are black. Also with the petcock facing forward, you have to run a long hose to avoid kinking. There is a cheezy way to eliminate the pump. You can simply turn your petcock around, cut the stock hose, and re-attach to carb, then stick a bolt or something in a small chunk of hose to plug the vacuum port at head. I got tired of wondering if the pump was part of my problems with fuel delivery, have never seen anyone on the site who has removed their pump, and had any issues. The biggest reason I did it was the fuel lines themselves,they are not very good quality. I got tired of dumping gas all over me and the quad, and I wanted a good filter in line. My dad had to pay over a thousand dollars to have all the rubber particles cleaned out of his boats fuel system, due to the Ethanol breaking down the rubber fuel hoses. Im not making much at all on these kits, I am doing it for my fellow Polaris riders and the Site! Also, this is a GREAT way to adapt the fuel line to fit the 04'-05' Keihin "pumper" carb up-grade, which I have done to all 3 of my Fugi 500's
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #14 
As far as the smoking, if you buy new rings, you will have to buy a gasket kit, thefull gasket sets usually come with new valve seals. If you really want to know which one of them is leaking do the following: Check your compression with a compression guage, then put a teaspoon of motor oil down your spark plug hole, then check your compression again, if your compression goes up, you need new rings, if not, you need new valve seals. But kinda a waste of time, since we know its one or the other, and one is easily done when fixing the other! If your piston is not scored or damaged, you could just hone and re-ring and replace the valve seals while your in there. If there is any damage or ribs in cyl. or piston, you will have to get a piston kit and have your cyl. bored. You could also just say screw it and get a HPD 558 kit for $500 and some Kibblewhite seals and not have to worry about it again! Just depends how deep your pockets go!  
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
NBass

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Reply with quote  #15 
Okay im with you now on eliminating the pump, i will have to try to crudly bypass it and just see if that helps the starting and idling at all and if so i will contact you on buying a kit.  so when i disconnect the pump its not gonna starve for fuel? it being gravity fed and the vacuum from the carb is enough correct? as far as the piston ring and valve seals i do agree that if your gonna tear it down you might as well do it all, i was contemplating on just replacing the valves with aftermarket ones but i have heard stories from a few people that the stock ones are the only ones that are worth a damn if the rest of your engine is stock, true? Im not looking to hard to dump that much money in this its just a play toy for now and contemplating on selling it once everything is squared away. i said i was just buying it to flip in the first place tho and then i rode it and couldnt give it up.. haha
NBass

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Reply with quote  #16 
does anyone know off top off their head what the i.d. of that fuel line is? I left it at our property so i cant check
ORION

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Reply with quote  #17 
90% of being a mechanic is knowing how to diagnose the problem. If you don't know whats wrong, then how are you supposed to repair the problem? 

Unless you want to upgrade the fuel system anyway- I suggest verifying that its starving for fuel before you tear your fuel system apart. Does it run better with the choke on? Does it run better if you spray a little starting fluid into the carb while its running? If it still runs bad when you add more fuel, then your not running lean.

If it is running lean, I would suggest buying one of pimpedpredators fuel pump bypass kits and then rebuild the carb.






 
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As for blowing smoke:

If you decide to replace the piston rings and do the valves without verifying what the problem is- then you will spend $500-$1,000 and it might still smoke. You might not fix the original problem, and could even cause more problems in the process. 

Dont fix it if it aint broke. If you dont know the EXACT cause of the problem, then I suggest that you stop all repairs now and do more diagnostics. 

Replacing the valve oil seals is usually fairly easy and only costs a few dollars. You don't even have to pull the head. If your going to start throwing parts at it without verifying what the problem is, I would start there.
pimpedpredators

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Reply with quote  #18 
the fuel lines are all 1/4", make sure you get a long enough piece, like 3' , and get clear so you can see what its doing. The petcock faces forward so you will have to gently sweep it back to the carb. I know from lots of experience that its easier to diagnose fuel delivery issues, remove the gas tank to access the plug, etc.. by simply eliminating the pump. Those long factory lines hold quite a bit of fuel and always get gas on everything. The Ethanol breaking down those old hoses is reason enough to junk the whole factory set-up. Simply turning around the petcock will make it much easier too,and you can verify that the petcock filters are clean, also. Be careful removing screws from the petcock/gastank, as I have seen the inserts spin loose in the tank,while removing. Like I said, most of us have eliminated the pump at some point, for several different reasons, no difference in performance. The FIRST step in DIAGNOSING the fuel system is to make sure you have a clean/adequate fuel supply. 
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03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
ORION

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Reply with quote  #19 
It sounds like there is a lot of advantages to bypassing the fuel pump. I have thought about doing it myself, but I always stick with the "dont fix what aint broke" mindset. If I ever have any fuel delivery issues, I will order one of pimpedpredators kits. Its sounds like he has the experience to guide people through the process. One way to test your current fuel setup, would be to start the quad with the fuel line disconnected from the carb, and check to see how much fuel flow there is (using a bucket to catch the fuel). The bowl should have enough fuel to keep it running long enough for the test. The nice thing about forums, is that you can get lots of free advice from different people/perspectives. Many times, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to do something, but there is almost always different options to choose from. 
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