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Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #1 
can anyone of see what is wrong in the photo?  long story short my beloved 560 predator blew a rod bearing . For afew years have had another 04 bottom end sitting on my shelf . The bottom end from the shelf was retired because it blew out three transmissions and I thought the cause  was because I replaced both case halfs. . (that's the history of that 04 case) so my 03 560 engine just blew out the crank so I figured I rip the falicon crank out of the retired 04 ,  after splitting the case I thought id take a look at the trans (because I never inspected the trans after any of the other times it blew) after seeing the burnt out 83m shift fork, I dug abit deeper(the last blow it was skipping out of 4th) I was trying to see why that fork didn't push the dogs deeper into the next gear, after about a minute I found the issue. My engine builder fucked me , He installed a hpd 03 shift improvement shift drum in a 04 trans. The 04 forks ride on a thicker diameter pin and the pegs on the fork are a small diameter then the 03 forks.so 03 forks have a smaller pin shaft diameter with larger fork pin. 11001822_10203540606616615_1518734270969197222_n.jpg  10987379_10203549925729587_3464682318344309450_n.jpg   another words the pins on the shift forks are very sloppy in the grooves of the shift drum, because it has a 03 drum with 04 forks.... this fuck up cost me three transmissions.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #2 
so now im just going to swap out transmissions and buy new forks. unless someone on this forum has a 04 trans for sale ? really all I need is 04 shift forks
Fuj

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Reply with quote  #3 
Will you have a chat with that engine builder ??
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ScramblerXLE

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Reply with quote  #4 
Brick, this is something I've been curious about for a while.  Are '03-'04 transmissions identical aside from the drum / fork setup?  And will the '03 trans work with an '04 drum and fork setup?  I know the '03's had some issues with not engaging all the way, did the '04 drum/forks fix that?  

I ask because if I ever finish my XC predator, I have enough parts around to build an MX one and have been thinking about putting my '03 motor in it, but the trans is junked, so if an '04 trans has the same ratios and the drum is a direct bolt, maybe that's an option...

Thanks!

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2015 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 450XC
2009 KTM 250XC
2005 Predator 558 (project)
2003 Cannondale 440 (project)
2006 KLX 250S
2002 Scrambler X 500
Sold, crashed, or otherwise gone: 2008 YFZ450, 2005 Predator 500 LE, 2007 Outlaw 525, 2003 Cannondale 440
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #5 
I haven't found anything different with the gears or thrust washers on the shafts from 03 to 04. all gears have the same ratio and all appear to be the same diameter. the only difference is if you put a 04 trans in a 03 case you need to use a 03 trans shift drum , forks and fork shafts. same goes for 04 , if you put a 03 trans in a 04 case , you need to use a 04 drum ,forks and fork shafts/pins. having both engines apart I see no difference in shift fork travel.  I think the 03 trans issues some guys had was do to poor heat treatment or bad metal casting.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #6 
fuj, I wish I could have a talk with him, he moved and hasn't returned my phone calls.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #7 
i don't want throw him under the bus so i wont drop his name , but im sure , with alittle research you guys can find his name on here. he was a friend of mine , or is , but im pissed.
 i feel like those transmission set backs cost me some riding time from the best years of my riding life.however it might have saved my life also, because id be a lot more crazy if i wasn't worried about blowing up a trans...na im pissed off.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #8 
another difference find. the 2004 case on the clutch side has holes drilled thought the case from the transmission shift fork shaft slot. the 03 does not. wonder if those holes were machined in to lube the fork shaft. my 03 seems to have quite abit of wear to the forks were the shaft goes though. my 04 does not have any sign of wear in that area.

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Reply with quote  #9 
also another find is there seems to be three different style shift forks and only two Polaris order numbers. I found that my 03 has the same size pin to groove on shift drum as the 04 . so another words a 03 predator can have two different shift drums and to different fork pin sizes  but there is only one order number for 03 predator forks and drums,, I guess it could be that one set up is the hpd shift kit ,,, im thinking the larger groove drum and fork pin is a hpd kit.  the 03 can use either size fork but it must have the right size drum/grooves. the 04 can not use the hpd kit drum and forks because of the fork shaft size diameter.it could be that the hpd kit was just a replacement 04 drum and 04 style forks but with the smaller shaft size need for a 03 case.
 

Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #10 
confused yet ???? I might have to take pictures and add details in those pictures.
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #11 
confused yet ???? I might have to take pictures and add details in those pictures.
ScramblerXLE

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Reply with quote  #12 
I've been inside a LOT of '05+ Predator motors, but never an '03-'04 any deeper than the clutch cover/top end.  I have an '03 motor with a locked up transmission sitting on the floor back in the barn at mom and dad's, as well as a full '05 bottom end, and another that is in pieces, all in various states of dis-repair.  I'd like to do the '03-'04 motor for a moto build because it's lighter... assuming I ever get to it...  But yeah, keep us informed!  This is good info!
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-Walt GNCC # 728 (GNCC - Vet A)
2015 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 525XC
2009 KTM 450XC
2009 KTM 250XC
2005 Predator 558 (project)
2003 Cannondale 440 (project)
2006 KLX 250S
2002 Scrambler X 500
Sold, crashed, or otherwise gone: 2008 YFZ450, 2005 Predator 500 LE, 2007 Outlaw 525, 2003 Cannondale 440
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #13 
Walt, do you happen to have a 05 and up standard transmission ,that you might want to sell ? I really don't like the troy lee trans in my rath frame. also, any good trans gears/forks from 03 and 04 I  would buy if the prices are right.
DragpreddyNOS

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Reply with quote  #14 
Please post pics of 03 & 04 cases where you see the hole for the shift forks oiler
I will do the mod before we put it back togather
Thanks

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DragpreddyNOS

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Reply with quote  #15 
I have 03 cases
We machined the cases to fit the larger (04) shift forks shafts
(04) Drum went right in

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DragpreddyNOS

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Reply with quote  #16 
03 & 04 cases
3 extra holes

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: image.jpg, Views: 49, Size: 87.76 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: image.jpg, Views: 47, Size: 365.00 KB 

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Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #17 
11008796_10203579768595640_601731787719698670_n.jpg 11006481_10203579764795545_6299514035947505868_n.jpg 
Team Bricktucky

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Reply with quote  #18 
11012827_10203579773555764_7386447704099621874_n.jpg 11018622_10203579772355734_7235504671491991405_n.jpg 10991087_10203579770795695_7140498873933198769_n.jpg 11018622_10203579772355734_7235504671491991405_n.jpg 11012827_10203579773555764_7386447704099621874_n.jpg 10991087_10203579770795695_7140498873933198769_n.jpg
Dunph

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Reply with quote  #19 
this should be a sticky...

done

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krigl

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Reply with quote  #20 
Guys... do you have larger pictures from Team Bricktucky's last post?
jmthepred

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Reply with quote  #21 
I wish you would have contacted me. I have a 05 trans.
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