Polaris Pro Riders
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #1 
   Finally got my winter project together and started it up and the engine is noisy. 560 BBK, ported polished, new valves, valve springs, timing chain, seals gaskets ect... Got the motor with busted piston. Pulled bottom end apart and cleaned it out and checked for wear. Got top end cleaned, bored, and rebuilt. Stock everything else, exhaust, intake, ect... Forgot what size main jet I put in but is running pretty rich. Mixed some gas to about 99 octane.
  So it seems to run fine and shift through all the gears. But I have engine noise. I have never heard one run before but I'm sure it shouldn't sound like this. I though it was valves so I recheck both, ended up tightening the intake valves a little bit and still sounds the same. with plug out and valve cover off I can roll it over by hand or with the starter and it sounds right and tight, nothing out of the ordinary. Put back together and fire it up and still noisy. It almost sounds like it could be coming from the clutch cover area. I put a new clutch in it so I don't know what it could be. Help please!
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #2 
the exhaust camshaft compression release is going bad. are the cams used? and old? I was pulling out my hair trying to figure out why I had a rattle, after alittle thought and checking it , I found that the compression release lobe was way loose and easy to move around.  let me ask you this how does it start up?? is it fine and easy everytime , then sometimes seems like the battery is going low or the starter is hung up?  if you have those issues you may have a bad spring or wore out compression release lobe.

 

fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #3 
I hope you just saved me some money! That sounds like it could be the culprit.
   What about my gear position (neutral) sensor not working either. It is not grounding out when I'm in neutral so the light don't come on (it burnt out I think) and I have to pull in the clutch. What grounds the switch out?  Did I put it together wrong some how in the lower end?

 And thanks for the clue!!!![thanx]
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #4 
   I'm looking at hotcams stage 1. It don't come with the decompression mech. What do I replace, the whole cam oem or just the spring, or the mech?
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #5 
near the battery is a little black plug in the wire harness, like a pugged in sensor , I believe it has one yellow with black stripe wire and one green with white stripe wire running into the harness, and a black plugged in switch?/sensor?/jumper? on the dead end.  I think that has something to do with it, but I forget. 1st make sure those wires have a end plugged into it. the next wire that I know of is out from under the shifter, in front of the sprocket. its brown and plugs into a green/green white doubled connector. also check all ground wires, which are brown, make sure they are all connected, some of the brown ground wire break off at the spark plug coil. there is also brown ground wires up under the front fenders on the steering support/frame. also make sure the switch on the clutch perch is connected.
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #6 
you can't buy just the decomp you need a new stock cam.

i strongly suggest you skip the hot cam on the predator. i have used hot cams on 5 or 6 machines and loved them on all of them except on the predator. they make less power than the stock ones and make you lose a ton of top end where the predator really shines.

__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #7 
agreed , stock cams are best all around, webcamshafts has the best cam set ups. I suggest any of the NC cams if your looking for more .hpd had some nice cams also but the stock cams work rather nice with a 560 or 558.


for years I told everyone I was running web 260i cams in my 560. just last week I found the cam card and discovered  my web cams are a custom grind,  a combo of 260i and 770(or at least that is what they called it, but the specs for the 770 are totally custom from the nc 42.. oop sorry guys. no wonder they worked so well.
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEOGM5150
you can't buy just the decomp you need a new stock cam.


Could it be just the spring? I can order just that, I found it listed. Other wise a new complete cam cost $262.90 plus tax. Does that sound about right?
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #9 
I guess it could , I haven't tried that yet, but my lobe seems to have side to side slop.
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #10 
yes you can order that spring.
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #11 
possible that it is weak but not likely that it is the only issue.
__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #12 
the other issue is the pin in the shaft that locks the lobe. it can be a issue and might be a cause, but I haven't taken my cam apart to inspect . you can't get that pin, however some could machine a new one.  I put money on the spring tho, its a real tiny spring and with the heat the topend gets, I would think it would wear out 1st.
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #13 
i have replaced that spring on 2 different predators and it did not change that ticking noise at all.
__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #14 
I guess slop from wear on the lobe and pin then.
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #15 
leo how was the ticking after you removed the lobe. did it go away?
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #16 
when i just ditched the decomp the noise went away.
__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #17 
Wish it just had a manual decomp. Did that price sound right or do you guys know where I can get it cheaper? The hotcams are a hundred dollars cheaper but one of the listings said it uses your stock decomp. Does that mean you have to swap yout old one onto the new hotcam?
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #18 
yup has no decomp and cuts your power in half not worth $100 in savings
__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #19 
Ok I get the hint.lol I will definitely get a oem. $270 shipped sound fair? That's on 2wheelpros.com 
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #20 
that sounds like a lot of money to me. i think i would find a good aftermarket cam for that kind of money. i would try hpd or maybe get a good used one for a lot less than that. i have bought a few good used ones for under $50 in the past.
__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #21 
That was my thought.[sign0116][sign0186] I will look around a bit first. Thanks Leo  
   
   I do still think their is noise coming from my bottom end too. Clutch area sounded really loud to me.
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #22 
  Where do I find HPDs? Can't find any searching around. Only forums talking about them.
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #23 
you would have to call daryl at hpd to see if they still have them.

http://www.hpd-inc.com/Predator.html

for $270 for one cam you may even be able to afford web cams.

__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #24 
Man I have called texted and emailed every listing on craigslist in the U.S. and can't find a cam. I called HPD and they can't help me either. I have a ad in the wanted on this site. Any other ideas on how to find one Leo? I really don't mind if I lose 1hp on top end or something with a hot cam if that's all I can find. But the guy at HDP said that he didn't think it was my decompression because I could hear it click when turning by hand and it seemed to run good. I still think it is. Because it should roll over easier than it does.
LEOGM5150

Avatar / Picture

SITE OWNER
Registered:
Posts: 15,429
Reply with quote  #25 
I do not think it is just 1 or 2 HP. I went from beating my brothers predator by five lengths to losing to him by almost 10 lengths. We re timed we checked everything we tried a million things different carbs intakes jetting cam timing etc finally went back to the stock cam and I was smoking him again the hot cams are horrible in the predator engine. I would try to find a low hour exhaust cam on ebay.
__________________
FROM: POWELL WYOMING USA

MY GREATEST FEAR IS THAT WHEN I DIE MY WIFE WILL SELL MY TOYS FOR WHAT I TOLD HER I HAVE INTO THEM...

2014 POLARIS RZR 4 900 EPS
2012 POLARIS RZR 4 900 XP
2008 POLARIS RZR 800
2008 POLARIS OUTLAW 525S LE
2007 POLARIS OUTLAW 525 IRS
2000 400 RCR TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2001 400 TWO STROKE SCRAMBLER
2005 SKI DOO 1000 TWO STROKE SAND SLED
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #26 
None on ebay. I just got a text from a guy in WI that parts out quads sais he has one and to make an offer. I just offered him $40 but he hasn't texted me back. Did I insult him or something? Thought that was a fair offer.
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #27 
Ok so I opened up my clutch cover and looks like the  timing chain is rubbing or has rubbed befor on the inside against the casing. Also the timing chain guide is rubbing the gear. So I thing something is not aligned or I am missing a washer or spacer. IDK. Gonna take it apart further and see what it looks like. Anything I should look for that would make noise in there?

 Oh and I got ahold of the guy on the used exhaust cam. He is shipping it for me from the black hill area.[jumping0018]
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #28 
This thing is driving me nuts! I can hear the decompression clicking but it seems like it's clicking at the wrong time. Right after it clicks rolling by hand it feels like the compression hits. After it clicks!?
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #29 
wait till it really clunks like mine did out on the trail. the quad ran great but had a nasty clack, I took her home, when I got home I found nothing wrong so I started her up. this time all the noise went away by it self. took her for another ride and it started clacking again. that is when I looked into it be the compression release.
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Bricktucky
wait till it really clunks like mine did out on the trail. the quad ran great but had a nasty clack, I took her home, when I got home I found nothing wrong so I started her up. this time all the noise went away by it self. took her for another ride and it started clacking again. that is when I looked into it be the compression release.


  I sure hope that takes care of all the noise in the top. I got a used oem on it's way. But there is still a whining or grinding going on behind the clutch cover. I can't find any metal shaving or anything. I just took the cover off and rolled it around but no idea.
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #31 
if you didn't find any metal or shavings , im not sure what it could be. maybe , just a guess, the oil pump vains,or pump gear are beat but I never heard of one going bad. I never killed one. another thing to look for is a sloppy gear plate on the back of the clutch baskets. I once had put a hinson basket in my pred and the blots broke because of a sloppy plate/springs. or the bolts backed out, but it had some play in the plate before I installed the basket. on a stock basket the basket is steal riveted , so I don't think the plate would come loose but the springs in the plate might get worn .  this just a thought and I do not think its your issue.   maybe the bottom timing chain gear teeth are worn out. maybe its the chain guides. id have a better idea if I could hear the noise. another thing to check is the crank nut that holds on the timing chain gear, some guys have had them back off and get loose or unscrew altogether. also if the timing chain tensioner is original id replace it, it could be messed up causing you to think the noise is from the clutch cover. its is more likely,due to age, that either you timing chain slides are wore down or the tensioner.  if its none of the things I taked about, then I would say it is something like a bearings, something not good. but keep your hopes high because that is rare.  like I said id have a better idea with audio of what it sounds like.
 
Team Bricktucky

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,071
Reply with quote  #32 
you said you replaced the clutch, is it possible you forgot a washer like #4 in the photo. BreakDown.gif 
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #33 
I bet that would make an awful noise if that washer was missing. I put it together so long ago I am forgetting some. I am gonna pull the clutch and check it is all there while I have the cover off. I am also worried about the timing chain guides. Can I replace both of those by just pulling them out the top of the valve cover? I don't have to remove the head do I?

 And thanks you guys for the help![party0006] Have to work out of town for a couple days so I will be back Sunday to work on this more.
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #34 
  So I put a good cam in with working decompression on it in and and started in my van at my shop and he thinks counter balance bearing. That is what I was thinking too. No metal in oil change. I rode it for the first time. I put an hour on the fresh motor and no problems. Very fast holy crap! Can see why you guys love these things.lol
  So I am just gonna ride it for now and keep my eye open for a 05 or newer lower end.
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #35 
Never mind that last post! So I put the oil I drained out in a milk jug and saw that there was antifreeze in it. So I will not be driving it until until I replace water pump bearing and seals. So now I know where the noise is coming from. Problem figured out but not fixed yet. I'll keep ya posted. Thanks
pimpedpredators

Avatar / Picture

Site Geographical Custodian
Registered:
Posts: 243
Reply with quote  #36 
Hey as far as your neutral switch goes, you may be missing the spring that goes inside, over the small detent shaft
__________________
03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
fastricoh21

Registered:
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #37 
Thanks pimpedpredators! I will have to dig around in there when I seperate the case again to replace water pump bearings. I don't remember a spring being in there.
pimpedpredators

Avatar / Picture

Site Geographical Custodian
Registered:
Posts: 243
Reply with quote  #38 
Ya , I forgot to put mine on before, it took me awhile to figure it out!
__________________
03' Predator HPD 558,full HMF, Kibblewhite valvetrain,full port/polish,Dyna FS ,Keihin FCR  w/MP twist,Barnett clutch & billet basket,Trail Tech billet dash,billet Torch lights, H&H 1 1/8" bars,TrailTech"Voyager"GPS, Acerbis gaurds, Full Flight +2 "A" arms,HPD +2 anti.vibe stem and dual stabilizers, custom billet tie rods&heims,frt. roller upgrade,Pro Armor case saver,AC Racing nerfs w/IMS ROLL pegs& shifter, Ballistic battery, +3" swinger,Lonestar +4" axle,Tusk Pro heels, full DG skids,Pro Aluminum grab,Blingstar bumper,UM alum.oil tank,custom radiator,Streamline rotors, AMR Graffix, gussett kit,Race Tech triple rate springs,full custom Fox Podiums w/added front res., ITP SS wheels w/ ITP Sand/Dune Stars for sand, ITP Pro Baja, w/ ITP Holeshot HD's for dirt, 03' Predator 500 (daughters) PP pipe, TRXr carb,PD intake,UNI ,no box,Jardine nerfs,Tusk heels,AC bumper,Trail Tech: fat bars,dash,Vapor,Torches, Razrs on black G-Force for dirt,AMS on red Douglas for sand
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.